Monster - Whats Your Verdict?

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kingjames1970
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Re: Monster - Whats Your Verdict?

Postby kingjames1970 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:57 am

frontier(s) wrote:
RippingFleshFromBone wrote:I was purely referring to the songwriting, not making any other comment on anything else in the KISS camp. On the whole I like MONSTER, but there's something missing and I haven't been able to suss out what it is.


I think you're right, and it's something I feel about the album also.

Monster is a solid effort, in many ways I prefer it to Sonic Boom and I don't really think it would be fair, at this stage, to expect much more from the band. However, and this is kind of the point, why does it just have to be the band? Kiss have used external songwriters extensively since Destroyer, and often/usually to very good effect. If we want to get really pedantic, even 2 out of 3 of the Originals featured one co-written track. And then there's the remarkable use of Vinne Vincent for Revenge, a decade after the guy was booted out of the band. Why? Because I think Kiss are smart enough to know that the end justifies the means.

Is Monster a decent album? Yes. Could it have been better with outside input? Yes, I very much suspect it could.

For me, the biggest drawback to the album is the lack of big choruses and mega-hooks. I can live with the hackneyed lyrics, but where's the melody and catchiness that I can't get out of my head? There are hired gun songwriters that specialise in helping bands add that to songs (Kiss have used several of them before) and I can't help but think the album could have been stronger with that input.

Mind you, if you listen to Right Here, Right Now (one writer) it's clear they still can deliver the mid-70s swagger and catchiness on their own. It really should have been part of the main album.


I completely agree with all that. I've given it another couple of listens and although it's great we've got a new KISS album, I am a little disappointed for the same reasons you say. But 'Shout Mercy' is very catchy to my ears and the backing vocals really add to that and Gene's bass and vocals throughout are really good. One of my problems with KISS these days is that they think they know everything that their fans want i.e. staid set-lists, KISS with no external influences etc. One of the joys of being a KISS fan is that you have so many periods of the band to listen to and even if they were just trying to be 'on trend' with things like IWMFLY or CoS, I've always enjoyed the results. So actually, I would have quite liked a Paul ballad - Forever is one of my fave tracks.

Having said all that, If it's the last album, well it's not a bad one to go out on and you're never going to please everybody. Hopefully it will keep growing on me and over time I'll appreciate it more.

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frontier(s)
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Re: Monster - Whats Your Verdict?

Postby frontier(s) » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:02 am

kingjames1970 wrote:Gene's bass


Yup, there are moments on the album where his bass lines, and sound, actually make me smile. He's contributed some really brilliant stuff to Monster in that regard.

kingjames1970 wrote:So actually, I would have quite liked a Paul ballad - Forever is one of my fave tracks.


Same here!

PhoeniX PhiL
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Re: Monster - Whats Your Verdict?

Postby PhoeniX PhiL » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:51 am

Pete wrote:Love or loathe the album let's be honest, The lyrics are pretty bad..even for Image!


Hmmm.. i actually the think the lyrics arent that bad compared to some of their previous outings. For me the lyrics on Sonic Boom were the worst they've done (MDD being an expection) purely because it sounded like they were making them up on the spot for some songs like Hot and Cold (Gene just riffling through random chat up phrases.. the worst bit being when he throws in 'Let the games begin' for no rhyme or reason) or Stand ( "erm.. you know it... erm I know it").

To be honest though, I treat decent lyrics on KISS the same way I would a free gift or limited edition packaging - not essential, not expected but nice to have if they're included.

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Sour Mash
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Re: Monster - Whats Your Verdict?

Postby Sour Mash » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:04 am

Kiss Lyrics have never been up there with Wordsworth..! arnt we Anal Kiss Lyrics Loons !!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
IAN

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Re: Monster - Whats Your Verdict?

Postby grunge » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:46 am

Sour Mash wrote:Anal Kiss



:shock:
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neilramone
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Re: Monster - Whats Your Verdict?

Postby neilramone » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:40 pm

Lord David of Coverdale once explained away his use of treble entendre by saying "hey I never said I was Billy fuc*ing Shakespeare :?
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Frehley75
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Re: Monster - Whats Your Verdict?

Postby Frehley75 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:43 pm

At this stage of the game I don't think we should really start to question Kiss' lyrics. How would "Nothin' To Lose" be looked at if it was on this album? "Take Me"? Or the Greatest Of All - "C'mon And Love Me"?

Stanley's "I raised my flag and she dropped her dress" is one of the best moments on the record for me.

Another thing that has occurred to me after all this talk of "Old Kiss" and "Classic Kiss" - listening to the, seemingly, maligned "All For The Love..." I reckon it would sit very happily on side two of "Hotter Than Hell" and you don't get much more "Old" and "Classic" than that. Just a thought.
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Re: Monster - Whats Your Verdict?

Postby Pete » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:20 pm

Frehley75 wrote:At this stage of the game I don't think we should really start to question Kiss' lyrics. How would "Nothin' To Lose" be looked at if it was on this album? "Take Me"? Or the Greatest Of All - "C'mon And Love Me"?

Stanley's "I raised my flag and she dropped her dress" is one of the best moments on the record for me.

Another thing that has occurred to me after all this talk of "Old Kiss" and "Classic Kiss" - listening to the, seemingly, maligned "All For The Love..." I reckon it would sit very happily on side two of "Hotter Than Hell" and you don't get much more "Old" and "Classic" than that. Just a thought.



Agreed. For me it's more the use of some of the worst rhyming couplets/triplets around such as 'fire, wire, desire' & 'heat, street, beat, sheet' etc. Just lazy songwriting for me. Still doesn't detract from the overall album that much in the great scheme of things. Rather have Monster in my collection than not in my collection.

Oh & can easily hear Peter singing "All For The Love" on HTH or DTK.
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AxeBass
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Re: Monster - Whats Your Verdict?

Postby AxeBass » Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:47 pm

4.5/5 in today's Sun

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kissinuk
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Re: Monster - Whats Your Verdict?

Postby kissinuk » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:27 pm

Anyone got a scan or photo of The Sun review?

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RippingFleshFromBone
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Re: Monster - Whats Your Verdict?

Postby RippingFleshFromBone » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:42 pm

acesmiddlefinger wrote:Adam,your a good guy and a lot bigger than me(no right hook ok?? :wink: ) but at times i find your attitude/thoughts on the band puzzle me. Thats not meant in a bad way its just you always seem to compare things to yesteryear. Im not stupid enough to think that every KISS song/album/ piece of merchandise/show/tour this band have ever done has been top notch but Monster is a decent effort for a band in the twilight of their career.

A lot of the people on this forum are old enough to remember the release of the classic KISS albums and your posts about attending tours and fighting over Paul guitars,buying the Jap Imports at HMV,following the band abroad always raise a smile with me,because i to have been there and done that.But those days are gone and before too long the band will call it a day, i intend to enjoy the rest of the ride(Please no more Hello Kitty).

Ive have never ever given a shite about the critics but i was merely trying to express that there is nothing wrong with this band at the present time,they are fine,they have released an album which they should be proud of.Even Steve Tyler thought it necessary to recently slag off the band and call them a comic book rock band, he must have had a ten minute break from MTV.KISS have never had any help from the media,often laughed at by the critics and thats why in my original post i stated it was interesting to see them receiving kudos for this album.

Whilst you may think differently with regards to Monster, i know that next year when the Monster tour hits our shores you and me and many others from this forum will stand together to acclaim their 40th year of rock n roll!! Who knows you may even buy a round. :wink: :lol:

P.S. KISS have always been cool in this household! :)

THANK YOU!!!!... :D

TBH, it's hard not to compare a band with such a long carear to the past, especially when it's in the past that most of their classic stuff was written. This isn't just KISS either, Rolling Stones & Aerosmith, just to name 2 others have the same problem IMO. They will never write another 'Sticky Fingers' or 'Rocks' and KISS will never write another 'Destroyer'. And while KISS keep harping on about 'this is the next Destroyer (or RARO as Sonic Boom was being compared too) they are digging a hole for themselves.

Why don't they just say 'this isn't KISS of old, this isn't going to be Destroyer...judge us on what we produce now?' And on that basis they have produced a good album, but it's still not a great album. And it would seem others out there in KISSinUK land feel the same as I do about this release.

If they put the good songs from SB and the good songs from MONSTER out as one album I'd be stunned by the brilliance. But there's just too much average stuff on both albums.

Though I have to say...while some songs on MONSTER are already being skipped, the ones I like, I'm finding I'm liking even more the more I play them. Loving Shout Mercy/Outta This World/Take Me Down Below & last Chance!

And yes, you certainly will see me on the next UK tour, and maybe even another trip to Europe also... :D 8)
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Pjcity
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Re: Monster - Whats Your Verdict?

Postby Pjcity » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:05 pm

Just finished first listen (yeah I know HMV have a lot to answer for)

Well worth the wait - What a album !!!!

I Bloody love it.....

Every tracks a winner !!!

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AxeBass
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Re: Monster - Whats Your Verdict?

Postby AxeBass » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:08 am

RippingFleshFromBone wrote:On first listen it's a mile better than SB, but that wouldn't be hard as SB was 75% shite!


RippingFleshFromBone wrote:If they put the good songs from SB and the good songs from MONSTER out as one album I'd be stunned by the brilliance.


Monster must be pretty good then? ...... :roll:

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RippingFleshFromBone
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Re: Monster - Whats Your Verdict?

Postby RippingFleshFromBone » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:38 am

AxeBass wrote:
RippingFleshFromBone wrote:On first listen it's a mile better than SB, but that wouldn't be hard as SB was 75% shite!


RippingFleshFromBone wrote:If they put the good songs from SB and the good songs from MONSTER out as one album I'd be stunned by the brilliance.


Monster must be pretty good then? ...... :roll:

YES!!!

Actually it is!! Even some of the 'average' tunes are slowly(!) growing on me. I never said anywhere that MONSTER is a poor album, like I'm sure I did with SB. MONSTER is much better than I expected it to be. All I've said is I believe there's something missing and it, mostly, doesn't sound like KISS. And others are agreeing with that. I'm not out in the cold!!!!... :D

Just for the sake of it take:
All for The Glory/Danger Us/When Lightning Stikes & SAY YEAH from SB and put them with HoH (it's growing om me!)/SHOUT MERCY/Long Way Down/Outta This World/Take Me Down Below/Last Chance & possibly Freak (love the chorus hate the spoken bit. What is that all about!) from MONSTER and you would have an outstanding album.

And, in fact, I think I'm gonna burn those tracks to a CD and see if it I can get through it all without skipping any songs!!
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sweetpain
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Re: Monster - Whats Your Verdict?

Postby sweetpain » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:49 am

So now I'm almost lyric perfect, I'm still chuffed with this album. Am I the only one who actually really likes All For The Love :oops:

Stand out moment for me is Paul's moment in the elevator :lol:
MY LOVE WILL DRIVE YOU INSANE!!


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